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When do we blame Jose?
Will O’Doherty raises an interesting point – at what point do we start blaming the manager?
After we were hammered by City, I found myself saying things like “Obviously there’s a lot of work to do before we’re challenging for the title” and “It was never going to get fixed quickly”. These things might be true, but at some point we do need to question the effectiveness of our manager to implement a system that works and get the players he has performing.
The attitude that we still need to buy some players makes no sense. Although we will always need to be looking for new players to stay competitive, it’s hardly like we’re lacking in options. No team has the best players in every position or aspect of the game, which is the point of having a manager who can utilise a squad’s strengths and mitigate its weaknesses.
More worrying than the Chelsea result is that __with so many premier league teams getting it “right” (in terms of manager choice, approach to transfers, style of play, atmosphere around the club) why is one of the oldest and most successful clubs in the world struggling to do so too?
Dave, MUFC, Manchester
The decline
The one “winner” missing from Monday morning’s round up was the Premier League’s title challenge – this weekend’s results sees the top five separated by just one point and one or two in goal difference, and __with fairly regular swings in form from the protagonists, and the rest of the top half of the table only a couple of wins out of the running.
The worry for Man Utd is surely that they are in the “rest of the top half” stragglers. The game on Sunday felt a lot like Chelsea’s performance against Arsenal, with one team looking motivated and disciplined and the others looking hopelessly devoid of any idea of how to cope with it.
In retrospect it wasn’t all bad for Chelsea – it was the back-breaking straw that forced Conte’s hand in switching to the new formation that is holding up pretty well so far.
Playing Citeh couldn’t come at a better/worse time for Mourinho. Win, and win well, and it’s a new dawn. But lose and it’s starting to smell an awful lot like Liverpool did post Dalglish (first time), a club unused to failure struggling to keep in touch with the new reality.
Monkey Steve
More-inho
Interesting article the other day about Tottenham’s attempts at changing their identities from neat and tidy spoof-merchants to Atleti-esque title challengers. Their sulky end to last season and their (eventually costly) lack of goals in this one show that Pochettino is still in that process. But it’s a huge job, bigger than new players and new tactics – Pochettino’s changing the expectations and personality of the club itself.
Like many people, I was amazed at how bad United were against Chelsea yesterday, but really I shouldn’t be. The club of four years ago is gone now. That club’s identity was that they always thought they should win. Simple as that. This led to the self-belief the players had, the fear in other teams when United pulled a goal back, the arrogance of both staff and fans (I, of course, would call it “justified confidence”), the lack of attention to the other team’s tactics – the occasional complacency that came with all that too.
But really that wasn’t the club’s identity; it was Ferguson’s.
The real and current identity of Manchester United – for three and a bit seasons now, under three different managers – is to crack under pressure, look at others to take blame/responsibility and be, well, really f***ing lazy. They’ve also had three years of their managers telling them that challenging for the league is not realistic. Mourinho’s been trying to change all this for about four months. Pochettino is two-and-a-half years into his revolution. A lot of good will evaporates after a result like yesterday, as it should, but the job Mourinho has is huge. He has to change the expectations and personality of the entire club, just like Ferguson had to almost thirty years ago.
Stephen O’S, MUFC
Pogba’s move came too soon
If you look at the really big money signings – Ronaldo, bale , suarez , neymar and now Pogba. Of the above 4, Ronaldo was obviously already a Ballon d’or winner and a once in a generation bas#$%d of a player. The remaining three, quite obviously talented, had nowhere near the success of Ronaldo. However, they were lucky because despite their big money price tags, they were playing supporting roles to two bored Gods who had descended onto the planet to pass some time. They had less pressure (relatively!) and more time to adjust.
Unfortunately for Pogba, this is not the case for him. He was bought as the savior of an ailing giant and the pressure is just going to keep building up. The expectations from him won’t be just to play good (like Bale and the other 3) but to be “The Player” for the team. And that role has come way too early for him. He is still just 23 years and has barely played 3 seasons at the top level. His quality is not in doubt (not to me atleast) but has he reached the mental maturity to remain as effective if the player or the system he plays in changes, as it has when he moved from Juve to United? Mature players who have played under multiple managers and with constantly changing team mates would surely find it easier to move clubs and adjust to a new environment. Pogba hasn’t really had that and its no surprise its taking him so much time to adjust.
For me Pogba’s big-money move came a couple of years too early for him. He still has a lot to learn, and with the price tag and the club he is in, he would need to constantly deliver out of the world performances too along with that learning. I hope this extra challenge makes him an even better player but I am not so sure.
Apoorv (MUFC, still trying to forget the trauma of last night)
How to solve a problem like Daniel
Daniel Storey makes a great point in W&L that Firmino’s ability as a false 9 in Klopp’s system is a big enough step up from his role as a 10 or wise forward to push Sturridge to the bench. This means Sturridge is now firmly (after doubts last season) not in the first XI, although clearly a part of Klopp’s plans. However given his attitude and ability, along with hi history, I highly doubt he’ll stick around no matter how well Liverpool are doing if he’s not playing.
There’s quite a few issues to be ironed out here though. Klopp won’t want to sell due to his talent, but we don’t want a Sterling situation to arise. Sturridge is potentially the best player outside the first XI in the premiership (challengers welcome, just don’t say Rooney), and is part of the dying breed put out and out strikers. I could really see him playing abroad, and think Dortmund or Juventus will be after him if their star strikers get snapped up.
But where is the motivation to sell from Liverpool other than to get a grumpy face off the bench? They’d lose a superb player with no obvious place to put the £30-40m (or more) that he’d fetch. We’ve a squad of few superstars but also few deficiencies. Only left back needs a significant improvement, with defenders or centre mids all being very good where a £40m player would seem a bit superfluous to be honest.
So what should Liverpool do? Get rid of the valuable benched asset, and where do they spend that money? Or get him in the team, and at who’s expense? Or tell him he he earns £120k a week so get over it?
Having said all that maybe they could just play him and twang his hammy to make the problem go away.
KC (love to hear about your most valuable benched player opinions)
Glad we let it slip
Is any other Liverpool fan glad we didn’t win the title in 2013/14?
I am sad enough to have a complete collection of season reviews from 1998 onwards and occasionally I may chuck one on of a rainy day.
The 2008/09 season is painful to watch. We were incredible and didn’t bring home the title due to a combination of Fergie time, Kiko Macheda and a few ridiculous home draws. We should really have won it that year and may have gone from strength to strength had we done so (and not let Alonso go). This season is painful to look back on for this reason. Similar with the 2001/02 season.
I thought the 13/14 season would be similar, but it’s (thankfully) not. Quite simply, had we won the league, we would have done so with a poor team and an awful manager, it would have been down to the brilliance of one man who would have moved on anyway. Most frighteningly though, it would have bought Rodgers more time and favour than when Rafa brought home Old Big Ears. I am certain we’d still have Brendan in charge to this day whilst we were watching Klopp revolutionise football and warm people’s hearts at one of our rivals.
Gerrard’s slip was unbelievably painful for me, and I thought it would stick with me forever, but I genuinely believe that if it meant one title before another 20 years of obscurity or no title (yet) and a shot at long term success with my new favourite German, I’d choose for Gerrard to slip every time.
Surely I’m not alone?
Dom (Hyypia deserved that 08/09 title to complete his set) Littleford
Big up the EFL Cup
The footie is relentless at the moment. I was idling thinking about next weekend’s fixtures and who Utd are playing as they will need a result after the weekend. Then I remembered, their next fixture is a Manchester derby in the League Cup! That is a brutal next match. Not least because City will be looking for a performance after their humbling by Barcelona and stalemate (can a 1-1 be a stalemate, or is that just for 0-0?) at the weekend against a Europa Leagued Southampton. This should be a belter. Surely Jose has to come out and play… surely?
Then with my mind on that track… Liverpool v Spurs! Now, Pochy has already spoiled this a little by confirming the kids but Klopp will play full strength and this should be another cracking game. Both open, both all-action and both pressing high up the pitch. Even with the kids out Spurs should compete (there is a reason they are fifth favourites for the Prem in a very strong year). My only concern here is that Spurs might not actually be too worried about losing as they have a lot on their plate at the moment and do look very, very tired. However, as we all know, this is the new El Classico of the Premier League. Fans at each other’s throats, frothing at the mouth, fingers poised over keyboards. Wednesday’s mailbox will be chocked full of gloating/ excuses.
So, the Cinderella Cup can boast two fantastic live games this midweek (also West Ham v Chelsea is on but untelevised in the UK). We got to watch Utd humiliated yesterday, have a day to chew over the whys and wherefores, before getting straight back into the action with Liverpool, Spurs, Utd and City on Tuesday and Wednesday. I have said it before and I will say it again… what a time to be alive!
Micki Attridge
A message from Histon’s former Wayne Rooney
Reading through your articles this morning I stumbled upon Histon. I used to play for Histon, firstly as a Hornet through the unders set-up, and then the senior side for a few years before ankles and Uni became an issue, (this was before the extended Glassworld stadium was built when they were far far lower down in the leagues). The pitch was surrounded by a rope on match day unlike the surroundings they have now, but there was a nominal charge to watch I recall. A 6ft wooden fence around the place stopped people watching for free, although it was rumoured that on occasions kids would climb over the fence, or through the hole that had been kicked in at one end, or simply stand on Bridge Road which was up a hill. For that nominal fee you could sit in the little stand they had attached to the social club, or walk around the pitch with a brew and chat to the quintessential bloke with a dog. Behind one of the goals were 2 Astro Turf pitches which were responsible for some of the worst slide tackle burns I’ve ever experienced. Picking sand out of a bloodied knee, elbow or thigh, a delight I’m sure some of you will remember. You could play footy while watching footy. That is something you don’t get at Premier League stadiums these days.
Proper side it was, I mean they were the only side I played for were you didn’t have to put the goal posts up yourself, and you ran out of the changing rooms straight onto the pitch, no crossing a road or a field. I played left-back, because they didn’t have a decent left-back, and I was useful, like a spatula. Heady days. As I recall, after I left they started getting pretty good. Not sure if it was me having a Rooney effect on the side, or the massive investment that was piled into the club, but they went on to knock Leeds out of the FA cup a while back which I think if the highlight of their journey thus far.
Always keep an eye out on their position, but seeing they’re worse than David Moyes Sunderland will be a kick in the teeth, I mean that’s bad. That’s really bad.
Chris ITFC, Liverpool
I can make sandwiches thanks to you, N’Golo
This actually happened.
Recently, because of the weak pound and that, I’ve foregone my usual branded spread in exchange for the value supermarket equivalent ‘Norpack’. Which is fine, other than it’s a bit solid when you take it out of the fridge, to the point that it’s almost impossible to spread on your bread without shredding said bread to ribbons.
For weeks I’ve been struggling to find a way of warming the yellowy brick up quickly enough to avoid having to think at breakfast time whether or not I’m going to want a sandwich three hours hence (if your missus has ever asked you what you want for your tea when you’re still full from your dinner*, you’ll know how difficult, nay, impossible that is) and leaving the spread out on the bench (which would almost inevitably result in my missus putting it back in the fridge, thwarting my attempts in the process).
I’ve tried putting the tub in boiling water, I’ve tried microwaving it, I’ve tried putting it under the grill as my sausages are cooking, and nothing, but nothing has done the job well enough to prevent the bready carnage.
Until yesterday, watching the Chelsea/United game it suddenly came to me! As I watched Ngolo Kante dance his way through the United midfield/defence unchallenged to score Chelsea’s fourth like a hot knife throu…- IT’S THE KNIFE THAT NEEDS TO BE HOT, NOT THE BUTTER/CHEAP BUTTER REPLACEMENT!!
And so, this morning, with a little bit of heat applied to my knife from the kettle I was able to make a sausage sandwich that Mary Berry in her prime would have been proud of.
So thank you Daley Blind, Paul Pogba, Ander Herrera, Chris Smalling and David De Gea. From this day forward, in this house, we WILL enjoy sandwiches, and it’s all thanks to your inability to tackle.
*If you’re middle-class, and you I’ve lost you here, simply replace ‘dinner’ with ‘lunch’ with and ‘tea’ with ‘dinner’.
Maddison, Alnwick.
Weekend TV football apathy
There’s a very interesting article in the Guardian today about the decline of football TV viewing numbers. I got published in the mailbox last week about something similar and John Nic wrote a piece on it shortly afterwards. I wanted to ask the Mailbox which matches they actually watched at the weekend live on Sky or BT through their TV (as opposed to an app or dodgy streaming services). The matches on offer were:
Bournemouth 0-0 Spurs
Liverpool 2-1 Baggies
Man City 1-1 Southampton
Chelsea 4-0 Man Utd
I cancelled my Sky subscription this season as I didn’t think it was economical. For me (Clive), the price was too high this season for the product on offer (it had risen considerably from last season as a ‘package deal’ through my ‘chosen’ provider). MOTD and MOTD2 show you all the goals anyway and 5Live has the majority of most excellent commentaries. In previous seasons, I think I would have probably watched all four games on TV but yesterday, I only saw the Chelsea-Man Utd match as I happened to be round a mate’s house for Sunday lunch and stayed to watch it. I didn’t even watch my own team which was unthinkable last season.
Are we collectively only watching clashes between the top 6/7 teams these days? I’ll take one for the rest of the Premier League collective and say that my beloved Baggies 0-0 Middlesborough was 90 minutes of tedium which was (unfortunately) televsied and for that I’m truly sorry, but I’m probably not going to tune in to Burnley vs Palace, Swansea vs Hull, or Sunderland vs anybody. No longer bothered really by cup competitions as teams are always weakened (and Albion always lose to League 2 opposition on penalties in the first round), and no-one watches the group stages of the Champions League or EUROPA League these days save possibly in a pub if one of our teams draws Bayern/PSG/Real/Barca. Anyone else feeling the same?
WB (subscription is dead; pay-per-view instead), Cambridge.
An African Champions League update
So, this past weekend, while most eyes were fixed on Jose’s return to the Bridge and Pep’s dip in form, the African Champions League final second leg took place on our beautiful continent.
In the end, Mamelodi Sundowns from South Africa won the country’s 2nd continental title after a nervy 1-0 loss in Egypt (probably the worst place to play an away game here). Thanks to their swashbuckling 3-0 home win in the 1st leg a week ago, Masandawana already had one hand on the trophy. For those who do not know, Sundowns are bankrolled by a mining billionaire Patrice Motsepe (ala Abramovich) who bought the club about 12 years ago hoping to win the big trophy (ala Abramovich). We half-expected the referee (from Gambia) to cower in face of the pressure of a 70000 ultra-partisan stadium filled with red smoke bombs and flares. But credit to the ref, he had a stellar game.
The real story though is found in the road to the final. Sundowns were knocked out from the Champions League earlier in April (by AS Vita of DRC) and sent to the CAF Confederations Cup (Europa League equivalent). They were also knocked out of the Europa League. However, AS Vita had fielded an ineligible player in one of their preliminary Champions League games and so were disqualified. This meant that Sundowns took their spot in the next round of the Champions League and when from Champions League to the Europa League equivalent, got knocked out, then reinstated back to the Champions league, only to be crowned champions of Africa later. For a club whose motto is “The Sky Is The Limit”, this could not be more appropriate.
Now the whole of South Africa is looking forward to the Club World Cup in December, hoping our boys can teach CR7, Modric et al a lesson or two.
Lee, Durban, South Africa.